Note from the author : this interview took place during the COVID-19 pandemic

Martine Loots and Joâo Lopes indirectly announced through a Facebook post that they are retiring from dog sports. This news had a significant impact on the Belgian dog sports community, especially among NVBK enthusiasts. It's comparable to the shock of hearing that Lionel Messi is retiring from football.
For NVBK enthusiasts and Malinois lovers, Joâo Lopes is a familiar name. He has built a unique and illustrious track record, often likened to another Belgian icon, cycling legend Eddy Merckx. But behind every man stands a strong woman, and that holds true for Joâo as well. Their names will forever be associated with their most renowned Malinois, A'tim. A'tim became larger than life and is still recognized as an excellent stud dog.
Joâo has achieved the title of National Champion in NVBK on every level and with various dogs (in Categories 3, 2, and the highest Category 1). This is an unprecedented feat, winning numerous titles and competitions.
The couple stood out in Belgian ring sport, not only for their impressive results but also for being beloved and forming a harmonious pair. They demonstrated that protection work is not an exclusive male domain and that it's a sport for everyone, not just for macho individuals. Moreover, they showcased that being a successful dog sport couple is entirely possible.
Their remarkable results, especially with A'tim, added international prestige to the NVBK.
 

Axel: Why did you decide to stop dog sports?
Martine: Actually, we stopped a while ago. Many people already knew that for quite some time. But that Facebook post was about selling our car with benches, making it official. We still have our dogs, and I'm still involved in dog sports as I'm still a member of the NVBK board.
Joâo: I've been doing dog sports for 50 years, and at some point, you have to dare to call it quits. Fifty years at the top level is very demanding. Even though I always did it with great passion, performing at the top is very intensive. It takes a lot of time, work, sweat, and tears.
 
Martine: Especially in the last 20 years, dog sports virtually dominated our entire lives. After such a long sports career, it became increasingly difficult to sustain. The last club where we trained was in Jemeppe. It was a 90 km drive each way, and then we still had to drive back. The training often didn't finish until midnight. We never left the club until we were done with our dogs. We always helped other club members too. We remained true to that principle. Joâo is a winner. Doing competition at a lower level or recreationally is not an option for us.
 
Axel: Joâo, how did you get such an exotic name?

Joâo: It's a Portuguese name. My grandfather was from Cape Verde and was a sailor. I don't speak Portuguese myself because, like my father, I was born in Belgium. My name sometimes led to funny situations. For example, we regularly received emails from Brazil with questions about our dogs and training because they assumed I spoke Portuguese, which I don't. But people actually call me Jean, which sounds more Belgian, you know.
 
Axel: What's the difference between you two after training together for so long? 
Martine: Jean is much stricter with his dogs than I am with mine. Jean constantly demands control over his dogs. I let my dogs have more freedom. Jean often jokingly accused me of loving my dogs too much.
 
Axel: How did you get into ring sports?
Joâo: I was a real city boy, born and raised in Antwerp. When my parents wanted to move outside the city, I had one condition: get a Doberman. So I got Satan Van de Westkant. This was in 1968. I was already successful with that Doberman because I won the Dobermann Verein Sieger in Germany, a title earned for character and beauty. In 1970, I was the first and only Belgian to achieve that title with my Doberman. After my military service with the paratroopers, I switched to a Bouvier, but it wasn't suitable for ring sports. After that Bouvier, I had my first Malinois, a female. Later, I played with King in the NVBK, my first dog in the Association. King was a tough dog and well-liked by real trainers. Another well-known dog of mine was One van de Lopes. One is a different story. Until he was 11 months old, he didn't bite at all. No one believed in him except me, so I trained him in obedience, jumping, and searching. At 11 months, he started biting, and at 13 months, he became the club champion. At 24 months, he became the youngest Champion of Belgium NVBK ever! Eventually, he competed until he was 12 years old. He was 70 cm tall and weighed 42 kg. A sizable Malinois. I could go on like this. A'Tim and his offspring Gast, Fun, and F'Kuno were all top dogs.
 
Axel: Martine, how did you get into the sport?

Martine: When I was around 12-13 years old, I accompanied my father to the Merksem dog club. My father was also involved in protection work with Bouviers in a St. Hubertus ring club. I started with a German Shepherd, but it didn't go so well. One of the more experienced members, Robert Naessens, offered me to work with his trained Malinois male, and from him and that dog, I learned the whole program. Due to my studies, I disappeared from dog sports for a while. In the mid-'90s, I started again in Limburg, where I lived at the time, with Xastar, a grandson of One van de Lopes, and played at the top level in the NVBK. 'If only I had known then what I know now' is always my reaction when I think of Xastar. He was a real top dog. After Xastar, I achieved good results with A'Tim's son Fils and his son Nelis De Heidewachter.
 
Axel: When did your paths cross?
Martine: We've actually known each other for a very long time. I was still a child when I first saw Joâo at work. It was only years later, after my then-relationship ended, that Jean and I got to know each other better and fell in love.

Axel: How did the collaboration between you two work exactly?
Martine: We complement each other. I never trained with Jean's dogs, and vice versa. We always had our own dogs to train.
Jean is someone who can apply a lot of pressure, also mentally. He's like that with people as well. He has a dominant presence, and many can confirm that. He needs to work with dogs that are like him and can handle a lot of pressure. That's how he prefers them.
We, like every trainer, each have our own type of dog.
I knew exactly what to do to help Jean in training, and he knew the same about me.
For example, when we trained, I had the remote control for the training collar for Jean's dog, and Jean had it for my dogs.
 
Axel: Electronic training collars are currently under a lot of scrutiny.
Martine: That's unfortunate. We use that tool to communicate better with our dogs from a distance. We used the collar 99% of the time to give low-level impulses.
We are very much against the wrong use of training collars; that is obvious. We hate it as much as any other animal lover if someone uses the training collar to hurt the dog. Because, let's be very clear, that is never our intention.
If the training collar is used with knowledge and respect, especially if introduced with very light stimuli, you can compare it to a pat on the shoulder, a warning. And that's enough for the dog.
When you train a dog with violence, trust disappears, and you get a dog with a completely different demeanor. Our dogs radiated a lot of joy during work. We received that comment every time we had visitors from enthusiasts all over the world. They found it amazing.
 
Axel: Do you use other tools, such as a clicker?
Joâo: I don't. I didn't even use food for training. I rewarded sometimes with a ball.
Martine: I do work with food, especially with puppies and also with large dogs, but much less, of course.
We were always open to new insights or methods, even from other programs. For example, Jean always had very dominant dogs, dogs that meant business. They were easily provoked. Gast was also such a dog. In the search compartment, for instance, he would bite the decoy every time. By watching training sessions in IPO (now IGP) clubs, we learned that they taught the barking in the compartment differently, in a playful way and without provocation. Jean started doing that with Fun with good results.

Axel: So, you evolved along with the changes in the sport?
Martine: Absolutely, to stay at the top, you can't stand still. In the '80s, things didn't have to be as precise as they are now. However, demands in training have constantly increased. The danger lies in the possibility of ending up with only pure sport dogs in the sport.
We always had strong characters, but this is the type Jean liked to work with. Many of his dogs would never have played in competitions with someone else.
We have a lot of respect for pure sport dogs, but we also need to preserve those strong characters for breeding. Mechelaars are not lap dogs and should never become ones.
We remember when people started training with a bowl or a mat for jumps, with a reward on it. At first, the "old-school" trainers laughed at this, but nowadays, everyone trains that way.
Training and new tools in dog sports continue to evolve.

Axel: What evolution in the sport did you find most groundbreaking?
Martine: It might surprise you, but undoubtedly, the electronic training collar. It has made dog sports much more humane. People who don't know this tool describe it as a torture device, but they have it all wrong. A long time ago, before this training collar, there were other less favorable things in training. Trainers then paid less attention to a dog's psyche.
Fortunately, that has changed a lot.
Nowadays, the aim is to get the maximum from a dog in the most positive way possible.
We achieved many successes thanks to our work with the electronic training collar.

Axel: You've been members of many clubs?
Martine: If you want to achieve something in the sport, you need the help of a good and experienced team. We've been fortunate to always work with the best trainers and decoys. Since we moved several times, we trained at different clubs but always with a very skilled team.
Joâo started as a young man of 16 in the Wommelgem club (Belgian Kennel Club), but the real start came when he, along with other young trainers, founded the "De Strijdlust Ranst" club in NVBK. They were young and enthusiastic, developing their own training methods, later adopted by many other clubs.
Then came the period in Hoboken, where A'Tim was prepared to become the top dog everyone knows. Afterward, we moved to the Kempen, where we trained at the Lummen club until 2003, when we returned to the Lier club to work again with our trusted decoy from Hoboken. Those were fantastic years, combining good training with fun and camaraderie.
Later, there were wonderful years in Nijlen and then in Jemeppe.
We've been able to work with many wonderful people and have fond memories and friendships. We are very grateful to all of them for that.

Axel: Who were your role models?
Joâo: I won't call them role models, but we've learned from many people we trained with and also from enthusiasts in other disciplines.
Besides, they don't always have to be big names to learn from. We respect many trainers.
Martine: Jean eventually became the top trainer he is now thanks to his natural talent and the experience gained through collaboration with various teams.
When several Belgian Kennel Club trainers switched to the NVBK, they were a great addition to training in the NVBK.
The NVBK Mechelaars received a positive boost in their genes from the more athletic Belgian Kennel Club lines. These lines were a nice addition to the strong characters in the NVBK, given their jumping abilities.

Axel: People often say that things were better in the past. They claim that even the Mechelaars were stronger back then. Do you share that opinion?
Martine: It's true that people talk a lot about the past. Many of those who speak about the past weren't even there, haha. And those who were present had to evolve because the training from back then wouldn't be suitable now. Much has changed. We have changed a lot too. We evolved, learned from mistakes, and learned from other trainers. But we do respect the past.
I might have some criticism about breeding. Some people are not doing it wisely. Breeding seems easy, but it's not. That's one reason why we see so many Mechelaars in shelters. I haven't bred, Jean has a few times, but we always followed it closely because our males were regularly used for breeding.
We all know examples of dogs that are not okay, either mentally or physically, yet they are still used for breeding. Money should not be the driving force for breeding. The great success of our beloved breed sometimes leads people to breed without scruples and sell to countries that have no knowledge or to owners without guidance. This undoubtedly causes problems and is not responsible.
Fortunately, there are also enough breeders who mean well.
And good dogs are certainly still around. They are not always seen in competitions. So, you have to make efforts to find them, attend many training sessions, and keep your eyes and ears open. Moreover, what is a good dog? Everyone has their own idea or preference, and they should choose a type of dog that suits them.

Axel: Is such a strong push bite genetic, do you think? And do you want to ensure that quality in your own dogs?
Martine: It must be there, but it also needs to be worked on. That's the decoy's job. A genetic push bite is a requirement for us. Our dogs were always strong leg biters. It's not easy in Belgian ringsport to catch such a fast dog as a decoy. In the past, all dogs were put on the leg. But due to the large number of arm biters, it has become difficult to find a decoy who can handle this well and safely. Therefore, we increasingly opted to put a dog on the arm, especially for the long attack. For the safety and health of the dog.

Axel: You've had many famous dogs, but A'tim became world-famous. Describe him.
Martine: A'tim had an incredible amount of charisma with a lot of self-confidence. He truly radiated that. The type we sometimes call an alpha male. He wasn't really social but behaved well. He was good with puppies and didn't fight with other dogs as long as he wasn't provoked. He also behaved perfectly in a crowd of people or at the vet. A'tim didn't need to behave aggressively or tough; he simply exuded respect. But people should not challenge him.
Outside in his kennel and in the house, he was calm. He wasn't nervous and was very balanced.
He wasn't a barker either. Dominant, yes, but with respect for Jean. If he was punished by Jean and knew he had done something wrong, that posed no problem.
A'tim was a complete dog, both physically and mentally, and fit perfectly with Jean.

Axel: A'tim also became a well-known stud.
Martine: Yes, that's correct.
Many of his offspring achieved excellent results in all areas of dog sports or worked with special forces, the police, or the military worldwide.

Axel: You've always had successful dogs. How did you select them as puppies?
Martine: To be honest, we don't have a big theory about that. We used to regularly visit litters we were interested in, always from parents whose pedigree we knew well. The working and biting are in the genes, so we had confidence in that, and we didn't need to test it. A mother doesn't have to be trained for us. A physically healthy bitch from a good bloodline, with a calm and confident character, is what matters to us.
We didn't really do a character test, but we observed how the puppies behaved in the litter. We looked for a calm, independent puppy with self-confidence.
 
Axel: What does the future hold?
Martine: We still have dogs and a large garden, so we won't get bored.
 Belgian ringsport and NVBK have been and remain a part of our lives. We will continue to actively follow it, but from the sidelines.
 

Also, take a look at their website: www.workingmalinois.be Workingmalinois A'Tim bloodline (workingmalinois3.wixsite.com)
 
Axel Van der Borght